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BMW E90 320d N47 Turbo question
21-12-2017, 12:39 PM, (This post was last modified: 21-12-2017, 12:44 PM by edtech.)
Post: #21
RE: BMW E90 320d N47 Turbo question
(21-12-2017, 12:29 PM)Alexandru.k_24 Wrote:  In that video the car was running from 0 to about 140km/h with the accelerator pedal at full throttle.

Hi thanks for your feedback and would suggest you to put fault codes displayed in ISTA D maybe we can give some ideas what to check then.



Best regards.
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21-12-2017, 12:47 PM,
Post: #22
RE: BMW E90 320d N47 Turbo question
The problem is that at 95% actuation level the geometry of the turbo should be fully closed. At 0% is fully opened. At idle it should be closed. Looking at the actuation level of the vgt during the acceleration under load, basically the vgt seems not to move at all. This would lead to geometry stuck in time, just like the old turbocharger. I have checked on a friend's car(the same car as mine). And with the engine at idle the actuation level is at 95%.
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21-12-2017, 12:48 PM,
Post: #23
RE: BMW E90 320d N47 Turbo question
Having looked at your video couple of times more it seems like it takes about 10s from start of acceleration to reach that speed. I don't know speeds, but if its 10s in 20d from 0 to 140km/h, then REALLY, what is the problem?

Please take into account that you see numbers updated couple of times per second while N47 engine changes duty ratio hundreds if not thousands of times. So it gives a bump up (you see 23% for example), the actual pressure immediately goes above specified and it sets 0% for them to equalize.

And even more! Your numbers are updated only couple of times per second because you are using very slow interface (K+DCAN I guess?) which pumps data over serial link to computer which is slow. So the numbers you see are read with quite long delays between each is read from a car.

In my experience using ICOM you get couple of times faster data refresh.
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21-12-2017, 12:48 PM,
Post: #24
RE: BMW E90 320d N47 Turbo question
(21-12-2017, 12:39 PM)edtech Wrote:  
(21-12-2017, 12:29 PM)Alexandru.k_24 Wrote:  In that video the car was running from 0 to about 140km/h with the accelerator pedal at full throttle.

Hi thanks for your feedback and would suggest you to put fault codes displayed in ISTA D maybe we can give some ideas what to check then.



Best regards.
No fault code at all. Checked with two versions of ISTA. (Rheingold and ISTA+)
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21-12-2017, 13:14 PM, (This post was last modified: 21-12-2017, 13:16 PM by Node.)
Post: #25
RE: BMW E90 320d N47 Turbo question
Ah, ok. Its really hard to understand your problem from the video. Now I get it. So if the problem is at idle, can you please take video of all live data pages on idle?

I'm most interested in masses, temperatures and pressures. Especially temp of ambient air, ambient pressure, air mass flow, etc. My idea is that one of your sensors is faulty. That can be charge pressure sensor, charge temperature sensor, ambient pressure sensor, ambient temperature sensor, MAF, etc. What engine may be doing: it decides that combination of data indicates, that turbo is already pumping too much so tries to slow it down.

I had such situation on one car where charge air temperature sensor was giving somewhat high temperature readings (which were not impossible though) and car was doing everything to cool it down. No errors, no warnings, just sluggish. Don't remember if it affected turbo duty ratio.

In your video at the beginning it shows 40+°C on idle, which seems a bit high, because it drops considerably when you begin driving.
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21-12-2017, 13:15 PM,
Post: #26
RE: BMW E90 320d N47 Turbo question
(21-12-2017, 12:48 PM)Node Wrote:  Having looked at your video couple of times more it seems like it takes about 10s from start of acceleration to reach that speed. I don't know speeds, but if its 10s in 20d from 0 to 140km/h, then REALLY, what is the problem?

Please take into account that you see numbers updated couple of times per second while N47 engine changes duty ratio hundreds if not thousands of times. So it gives a bump up (you see 23% for example), the actual pressure immediately goes above specified and it sets 0% for them to equalize.

And even more! Your numbers are updated only couple of times per second because you are using very slow interface (K+DCAN I guess?) which pumps data over serial link to computer which is slow. So the numbers you see are read with quite long delays between each is read from a car.

In my experience using ICOM you get couple of times faster data refresh.

Look at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53XHv7eA...e=youtu.be . It is from a friend`s car. The same car. Same engine, same gearbox, same DDE (701) same software DDE number. In the video his car was at idle and then he applied slight acceleration from 0 to about 60km/h and up to 3500rpm. So, why his car actuates the geometry of the turbocharger from 90%(at idle) to lower values according to higher RPM compared to my car wich starts from 0% at idle?
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21-12-2017, 13:18 PM, (This post was last modified: 21-12-2017, 13:19 PM by Node.)
Post: #27
RE: BMW E90 320d N47 Turbo question
His charge air temperature at idle is much lower smile I would really like to see what temperature of air is measured at MAF in relation to what charge air temperature is measured at the same time on idle (or even with engine off at all, but then sensors may heat up from the engine if its hot).
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21-12-2017, 13:26 PM,
Post: #28
RE: BMW E90 320d N47 Turbo question
(21-12-2017, 13:14 PM)Node Wrote:  Ah, ok. Its really hard to understand your problem from the video. Now I get it. So if the problem is at idle, can you please take video of all live data pages on idle?

I'm most interested in masses, temperatures and pressures. Especially temp of ambient air, ambient pressure, air mass flow, etc. My idea is that one of your sensors is faulty. That can be charge pressure sensor, charge temperature sensor, ambient pressure sensor, ambient temperature sensor, MAF, etc. What engine may be doing: it decides that combination of data indicates, that turbo is already pumping too much so tries to slow it down.

I had such situation on one car where charge air temperature sensor was giving somewhat high temperature readings (which were not impossible though) and car was doing everything to cool it down. No errors, no warnings, just sluggish. Don't remember if it affected turbo duty ratio.

In your video at the beginning it shows 40+°C on idle, which seems a bit high, because it drops considerably when you begin driving.

The charge air temperature is 40°C because the car was standing with the engine turned on for a couple of minutes. Outside are -5°C. I think that the temperature is going down during acceleration because the car aspires more cold(-5°C) air during acceleration. The idle values seem to be fine, only doubt that I have is about the charging pressure actuator. As i read from ISTA D, if the MAF, MAP, Flow-Control valve, EGR or Intake air temperature sensor are sending false signals or they are faulty, the variable geometry of the turbocharger is deactivated. So, maybe a sensor is giving incorrect readings.
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21-12-2017, 13:29 PM, (This post was last modified: 21-12-2017, 13:32 PM by Node.)
Post: #29
RE: BMW E90 320d N47 Turbo question
That does not sound correct. If engine is on, its pumping air around 1kg per minute. 1kg is 1 cubic meter. IMHO that flow would cool the sensor very efficiently. Especially if its -5 at intake. Then engine can really decide that the only reason it gets so hot is turbo already at high power.

Your thoughts sound very like mine at the beginning, when I began looking at that car which I mentioned above. I remember thinking that ok, this is not that hot, probably it heats up from the engine. NO! That was my error.
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